tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074861.post5280565031485605660..comments2024-03-28T02:36:55.037-04:00Comments on Brooklyn Arden: A Ramble List: the Dinner Table Debate, Religion, Bigotry, and Monkey BrainsCherylhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05972029478350879112noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074861.post-54939525984443486522012-08-30T18:28:09.853-04:002012-08-30T18:28:09.853-04:00I've been trying to decide whether or not to c...I've been trying to decide whether or not to comment. I hope that I can find points of agreement, while stating the areas where I disagree in such a respectful and dignified way that you don't feel in any way, shape, or form as though you've been flamed.<br /><br />I'll start off by saying I'm a Mormon. That fact alone makes me "suspect" to people both from the right and from the left: from the right because I believe in a New Testament but not Credal Christianity; to the left, among other things-- but most relevant to this discussion-- because I do believe in protecting heterosexual marriage by law.<br /><br />I believe in modern prophets and apostles. In 1995, Gordon B. Hinkley, the president of my church at that time, presented a document called "The Family: A Proclamation to the World," which sets forth the Church's position quite clearly. I was not the only person who, in 1995, raised my eyebrows that the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles felt the need to talk about marriage as being between a man and a woman, as well as the need to promote measures designed to maintain and protect the position of the family thusly defined; but now I see the prophetic vision behind it.<br /><br />I definitely agree with that we need to be as kind as possible to everyone, always. But being kind does not mean always saying that everything others do is acceptable, nor does it mean giving them something they want-- even desperately-- if by giving it to them, I feel I will give up something which is vital to my own well-being, or even (in this case) to the well-being of the society in which I have a part.<br /><br />I enjoy your blog! And I am optimistic that, though the leaders of the debate may have mislaid their non-monkey brains... somewhere... those of us lower down always have an option to try, and try again, to be kind and respectful and listen-y.<br /><br />Thank You!SAChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03640213844813040602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074861.post-78374566093981261752012-08-29T11:12:36.553-04:002012-08-29T11:12:36.553-04:00This is something I've been thinking about a l...This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately, and the description of the fighting monkey brain explains something I've been struggling with for a while. It's incredibly easy to get caught up in arguing in the name of tolerance, which I know isn't very tolerant at all... and is something I've caught myself doing a little more often than I would like to. I come from a fairly liberal town, and have just returned to college, and I've had to remind myself that not everybody thinks the same way I do on the topic of gay marriage. <br /><br />It's tough because I always want so badly to convince people that everyone deserves rights and so on, but there's also tolerance and not letting my monkey brain screech out of control... I think everything you've said here is right. (And maybe the best way for people to see the "human" side of things is to give them compassion and understanding anyway. I've seen this happen with the whole "Dream Act" debate, when people who were against it met an undocumented person it affected.)<br /><br />Anyway, thank you for this blog post, because I found it really, really helpful. I've made being more tolerant about tolerance a goal for this year, and I'm going to try hard to fulfill it.Libbyhttp://scandaroona.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074861.post-15611113503418891702012-08-28T17:42:33.958-04:002012-08-28T17:42:33.958-04:00While I find at the very least, Dan Savage mildly ...While I find at the very least, Dan Savage mildly entertaining, the sad fact is that most people probably won't consider the opposing sides of the gay marriage issue if they are left with two hardline viewpoints to choose from.<br /><br />I've found over the years that my position had evolved when I was talking to a supporter who was respectful of my opinion and presented their viewpoints in a civil manner, and at times hardened when someone of the calibar of Dan Savage and his latent myopia of any reasonable opposing viewpoint attempted to harass and bully not only me but others as well.<br /><br />No matter what side of the issue you happen to fall on, your viewpoint will never be considered so long as you treat the oppositon with utter contempt and hostility.G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074861.post-32438707460682391442012-08-28T14:55:21.652-04:002012-08-28T14:55:21.652-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Nandinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14288011387138842112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074861.post-69729993840288364802012-08-28T13:21:49.334-04:002012-08-28T13:21:49.334-04:00Huzzah, huzzah!!!!!!!!!! What you said. I've s...Huzzah, huzzah!!!!!!!!!! What you said. I've said similar things myself before. Why is it so hard for people to really listen to each other and find some common ground? <br /><br />And I appreciate the term "Christianists." I'm another Christian who just feels so completely FRUSTRATED by some of the stuff said and done by people claiming to do it as Christians, and am so sad that so many non-Christians now think the philosophies and actions of the Christianists ARE what Christianity is all about. I try to speak up, but it feels like nobody WANTS to listen. rockinlibrarianhttp://rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074861.post-35083875718168502952012-08-28T12:40:03.646-04:002012-08-28T12:40:03.646-04:00Interesting. My thoughts have followed similar lin...Interesting. My thoughts have followed similar lines. My childhood church emphasized focusing on oneself: one's personal behavior, soul, and relationship to the spirit. I have seen a huge shift to watching and controlling others or the "culture" at large, and is one of the reasons I no longer feel comfortable in church. Religion and spiritual study, for me, is profoundly useful when directed inwardly, then out into the world. I continue such study on my own. Every society needs rules, yes, but legislating every aspect of personal morality negates free will and the discipline of applying one's own morality to one's life, that cherished discovery of who I am and what works for me (which may not be what works for others). I hope I am accepting and tolerant of other people's needs and beliefs. I would like such acceptance and tolerance reciprocated. Kate Barsottihttp://www.katebarsotti.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074861.post-38479571109174642452012-08-28T12:30:34.982-04:002012-08-28T12:30:34.982-04:00Hmm, I don't think of the "ist" mark...Hmm, I don't think of the "ist" marker as a name, Anonymous -- I think it draws a useful distinction between people who have a certain kind of religious faith and people who try to impose the beliefs of that religion upon others. And I would gladly use "Islamist" if I had occasion to write about fundamentalist Muslims, though "Jewist" or "Hebrewist" sounds a bit bizarre -- "fundamentalist Jews" might have to do. Cherylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05972029478350879112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074861.post-63079473463982625942012-08-28T10:04:44.515-04:002012-08-28T10:04:44.515-04:00Thank you, Ms. Klein. You said it sooo right! As a...Thank you, Ms. Klein. You said it sooo right! As a Christian I try to practice empathy, not condemnation. Many Christians are Christian-ists, but some of us simply follow Christ and try to live and love as He does.Sarah Floydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11202671048418865629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074861.post-17654197969556368532012-08-28T09:45:03.068-04:002012-08-28T09:45:03.068-04:00I wish you wouldn't call us names. We are Chr...I wish you wouldn't call us names. We are Christians. Would you call Muslims names, or Jews? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4074861.post-87449239221908221172012-08-28T09:22:32.158-04:002012-08-28T09:22:32.158-04:00Even the dress and body language is interesting to...Even the dress and body language is interesting to observe, without the sound on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com